tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post4301075450231931577..comments2023-11-05T10:11:31.578+00:00Comments on Just William's Luck: 'to slip the noose of the world'William Rycrofthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15056188088340973039noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post-65971784380358142572011-08-06T11:51:43.060+01:002011-08-06T11:51:43.060+01:00Thanks for a brilliant comment Ellie. Lots of Holl...Thanks for a brilliant comment Ellie. Lots of Hollinghurst's readers have a lot of enthusiasm for his early work and I'm sure I'll read one or more of them at some point. Particularly with the promise of sexual jouissance!<br /><br />That idea of literature and memory is fascinating isn't it? Not only does the author tend to draft and re-draft before ending up with the 'finished' product (which they often want to change further) but then there's the role of editor to be considered. And that's before we even get into the long term effects of the passage of time and how it interferes with what we cpme to regard as the finished product. As for the authenticity of authorial voice, that's where things can get really muddy. The revelation recently of just how much of Raymond Carver's unique style was actually due to the intervention of his editor, Gordon Lish, throws the whole idea of authorial authenticity up in the air (in a practical sense, without having to get our hands dirty with the theoretical difficulties). Interestingly I had the chance to interview the author Tom McCarthy about the very idea of authenticity recently and you can read what he had to say in a couple of weeks...William Rycrofthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15056188088340973039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post-58251896213507113062011-08-04T19:43:13.667+01:002011-08-04T19:43:13.667+01:00As someone who has read all of Hollinghurst's ...As someone who has read all of Hollinghurst's work I have to say that this novel continues the departure heralded by Line of Beauty - which I objected to on the grounds of its immersion in the unpleasant and callous milieu of Thatcherism. Not that earlier work (including my absolute favourite, The Folding Star) doesn't have the same structural elements of middle-class protagonists out of their class comfort zone, a certain old-fashioned, almost nostalgic, view of England (especially as enshrined in dialogue), and the oft-noted, well-crafted prose. <br /><br />But these last two novels are missing the sexual jouissance of Hollinghurst's earlier work. He's being too well behaved! As people have implied, we already have one Ian McEwan and don't need another. I feel it's a shame you haven't read some of the racier novels, Will, as they are much more fun. <br /><br />An idea that I liked in The Stranger's Child, however, concerned literature and memory. I appreciated the point that what comes to be considered as a 'solid' work of literature could in fact be the result of a number of omissions and mistakes, lost drafts and jettisoned versions, censorships by either the author or others, discoveries through research or pure accident, etc. Put simply, that there is something inherently unstable about the transmission of literature; that 'great' works are in fact only partial stories that pass through the editorial hands and minds of others. I thought that was interesting. I just hope that Hollinghurst stays true to his own authorial voice to make sure what gets handed down to future generations is also what is most authentically 'him'.Telly Elliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05766062383646173664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post-2480960418307017772011-07-11T08:25:53.802+01:002011-07-11T08:25:53.802+01:00Hi Simon. I'm not surprised to hear he was a b...Hi Simon. I'm not surprised to hear he was a bit cross about the Brideshead comparisons, just about every broadsheet review I've read has made them, suggesting it is quite a heavy debt he owes. <br /><br />That idea about not being given enough deadlines is very interesting. I've long had a suspicion that certain authors, having established a certain reputation or regard (by winning the Booker for example), are left a little too much to their own devices and the red pen capped and put away when in fact exactly what they might need is a firmer hand from their editor to help them craft the next book. It's a part of the process the reader never gets to know about unless the writer themselves is candid about it (or their archives released much later in life - or death).<br /><br />I'll look forward to reading your own review in time Simon.<br /><br />P.S I wondered about whether to include that throwaway line about the book being a bit this and that, but decided to keep it in as I was really meaning to lampoon my own attitudes approaching it. (I know Hollinghurst has being getting cross too about being considered a gay writer - and I understand this book contains far less graphic material than his previous novels - but it did seem to me that the only relationships given real consideration and time where those between the male lovers)William Rycrofthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15056188088340973039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post-22099878902853611812011-07-10T21:36:43.821+01:002011-07-10T21:36:43.821+01:00Its interesting to see the debate this book is cau...Its interesting to see the debate this book is causing. I am still muling it over. One moment I think it writing, and even the way it ended (once you give it some thought) was rather genius. In other moments I keep thinking about the rather saggy middle. <br /><br />It was interesting hearing him talk about the book (he got very cross with it being compared to Brideshead) on ABC Radio's book show and he said he wasnt given enough deadlines, maybe the publishers knew that whatever he wrote next would sell really well and so didnt get an editor on board. <br /><br />That said I did like it quite a lot. My mixed thoughts will be on Savidge Reads soon.<br /><br />P.S Can a book be a 'bit gay', which books are a 'bit straight'? Hee hee.Simon (Savidge Reads)http://savidgereads.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post-53946831174403207302011-07-10T07:59:14.066+01:002011-07-10T07:59:14.066+01:00At least half of the book is well away from the Ju...At least half of the book is well away from the Julian Fellowes arena Max but you're not the first person to say that they find themselves weirdly untempted by this book. As a Hollinghurst novice I have been unsurprised by the enthusiasm people have expressed for TLOB but encouraged by the passion readers have for his earlier novels. It means that I may read more of his work, something that I might not have said simply after having read this book.William Rycrofthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15056188088340973039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post-35298055606298958792011-07-09T20:01:22.203+01:002011-07-09T20:01:22.203+01:00A very nice review Will.
I find myself curiously ...A very nice review Will.<br /><br />I find myself curiously untempted by this one. I can't say why either and I have read and enjoyed other Hollinghursts (The Swimming-Pool Library and Folding Star).<br /><br />He's a very dense writer. Beautifully crafted sentences but on the level of the novel I can find him a bit claustrophobic. <br /><br />TLOB's on the TBR list, but it's not near the top of it presently. I doubt this will get onto it at all. And yet even now, and after your very clear and informative review, I struggle to say why. Perhaps I'm Julian Fellowesed out.Max Cairnduffhttp://www.pechorinsjournal.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post-70620560369133288342011-07-07T09:25:51.867+01:002011-07-07T09:25:51.867+01:00Thanks for the comment Matthew. I think that thing...Thanks for the comment Matthew. I think that thing about character development is particularly interesting. I guess people are likely to have different characters they're into but like you I was disappointed to see Peter go and immediately flagged Jonah as a potentially important character only for him to disappear I though forever (I thought his return to the narrative was really touching though). These are the perils of a decade leaping narrative however.William Rycrofthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15056188088340973039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post-8007710692550597882011-07-06T21:05:56.714+01:002011-07-06T21:05:56.714+01:00I think Hollinghurst's prose is miles better t...I think Hollinghurst's prose is miles better than his plot development. I found some parts unnecessary (the psychic?). However I loved the book and felt genuine sadness for the memory of poor Cecil. Some of the characterisation could have been better (why kill off Peter and why not develop Jonah more?) The non-sex scenes shone through for being less plentiful than in his earlier novels and all the more suggestive. I thought the period denoters a little flat (z cars, iPhones etc). One final thing was his use of who/whom, which I've struggled to understand and previously noted in SPL. <br />Would definitely recommend although a little heavy for a summer read.Matthew C Baineshttp://@mbainesynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post-24150342150106016592011-07-05T22:13:39.859+01:002011-07-05T22:13:39.859+01:00Thanks Kevin. As Leyla hinted above I think the jo...Thanks Kevin. As Leyla hinted above I think the journalist part of your brain may be tickled later on. I look forward as ever to your thoughts once you've bashesd that chip off.William Rycrofthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15056188088340973039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post-49538477250838457852011-07-05T21:07:17.717+01:002011-07-05T21:07:17.717+01:00I have only read the first section and have to say...I have only read the first section and have to say that your thoughts on that are exactly what I experienced. I suspect I will be sharing your opinions on the rest as well. I am afraid that already "beautiful writing" is starting to raise a chip on my shoulder. I'll head out to the deck and bash it off before proceeding further.<br /><br />As always, of course, a thoughtful and balanced review.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post-74089139393912281602011-07-05T17:23:26.011+01:002011-07-05T17:23:26.011+01:00Stu - I'll look forward to your thoughts appea...Stu - I'll look forward to your thoughts appearing<br /><br />Leyla - Thanks you for your considered comment as always. A few people have tried to get me to read TLOB but I've always struggled to get over my familiarity with it as well as my aversion to bringing back 'the chilling memories of Thatcher's Britain.' If I can leap those two hurdles I will give it a go as I'm sure the writing will be of the highest quality, even with that 'froideur' (I guessed coldness but had to google to check!).<br /><br />Thomas - The signs aren't good! John Self over at Asylum finished TLOB but couldn't finish this one. Maybe wait for a holiday or weekend away to imprison, I mean immerse, yourself in it.William Rycrofthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15056188088340973039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post-34287899497497548332011-07-05T16:31:33.827+01:002011-07-05T16:31:33.827+01:00I'm on the fence about whether or not to even ...I'm on the fence about whether or not to even give this one a try. I liked Hollinghurst's earlier novels, but I found The Line of Beauty to be tedious in the extreme. I got half way through and decided not to go any further which is a rarity for me.Thomas Hogglestockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14284352537015457974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post-18610410365892211992011-07-05T14:49:06.413+01:002011-07-05T14:49:06.413+01:00Beautifully written review as always, Will. I'...Beautifully written review as always, Will. I'm one of the people who loved this book, although I'm not sure anything could beat The Line of Beauty, which is for me, one of the most gorgeously written novels I've read. Both have a certain froideur at their heart in that they are sumptuous as far as architectural detail, art and literature are concerned, and immaculately written (as you note about The Stranger's Child), but the relationships in them do lack warmth and love. This is Hollinghurst's intention; in TLOB, a sister was driven to self destruction by her parents' values, and you could see the protagonist being corrupted by the shallow wealth around him. I think Hollinghurst captures so well the coldness at the heart of many upper class families.<br /><br /> You are very perceptive about some of the immediacy of the first section being sidelined in the later parts: while I found the theme of reputation and unreliability of memory fascinating (and Paul's venal intrusion as a journalist hilarious), I would have liked to know more about the human interactions, such as whether there was real love between George and Cecil or just sexual infatuation, and, as you say,more about events leading to each of Daphne's marriages.<br />I'm glad you mentioned Atonement by Ian McEwan because when I started The Stranger's Child I was struck by the similarity of its opening to that of Atonement - the English country house, the anticipation of an expected guest, the young sister spying on her unwitting older sibling. I hoped this was homage rather than uncredited influence.<br />Anyhow, it's a very astute review, even if we come to different conclusions about the book. I really would strongly recommend The Line of Beauty, though. It captures the glacial facades of the upper classes as brilliantly as, say, Edward St Aubyn does, and brings back chilling memories of Thatcher's Britain.leylahttp://www.rocksbackpagesblogs.com/author/leylanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7534509012046591314.post-42296757051084387332011-07-05T11:10:47.918+01:002011-07-05T11:10:47.918+01:00I ll reserve the rtight to say to much Will as I v...I ll reserve the rtight to say to much Will as I ve not read it yet having read some of his other books ,I think this will be like them he tends to pick one thing sat a era and mine it for all its worth ,all the best stu ~~(I will comment Will after I ve read it )Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com